A QUESTION ABOUT FLIGHT 19

[saintsuspiria]

Hey everyone. I'm kind of a novice when it comes to the Devil's Triangle, but I've always been interested in missing persons, which brings me to Flight 19. Has there been any new developments concerning the possible location of their wreckage in recent years? Do you think they were victims of whatever may exist there or simply lost to human error and/or mechanical problems (i.e. their compasses). I think they got lost, ran out of fuel, and were forced to ditch their planes into the Atlantic Ocean. Apparently there were no known survivors reported. Has anything new developed?

[Phillip70]

"In 1991 a newspaper report ran of a salvage ship named "Deep See" finding intact the remains of Flight 19 on the ocean bottom ten miles northeast of Fort Lauderdale. One plane bore the number 28, the same as Taylor's aircraft. But on June 4 graham Hawkes, who had headed the search, conceded that further investigation had proved that the craft were not from Flight 19. The numbers on the other planes were different from those on the fabled flight and the Avengers were an older model than the one on Flight 19".

You have read this web site?

wintersteel.homestead.com/files/JamesArticles/Flight_19.htm

[Amityville Rock]

If memory severs me correctly I think I also read an article that another deep sea expedition had "found Flight 19" back in 1996. Needless to say they also turned out to be mistaken upon closer examination of the wreckage they pulled off the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean near the Bahamas Islands.


Amityville Rock

[jpol66]

You should read this book: Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved by Lawrence D. Kusche, Paperback, January 1975.

The author researched prior disappearances in the Bermuda Triangle and came up with newspapers and other weather reports that reported storms and worse - even though they were not mentioned in the original articles reporting the missing vessels.
He also came up with the idea that most searches were not done immediately and some or all of the wreckage could have been "swallowed" by the water, or taken to another area by the moving water - an area that was also not searched right away (or not at all).
So, some of the disappearances are not such a mystery.
Flight 19 was one where I think he said that the area was not searched immediately, and the pilot's gauges were off, so the wrong area was searched first.

[Jaime C.]

The Discovery Channel has launched a new show about the Bermuda Triangle. It says that there is a huge amount of methane gas within the seafloor, and is stuck inside pockets. When these pockets rise quickly to the surface, they can split a cruise ship or an oil tanker in almost 3 seconds. Then the methane rises up into the atmosphere. If a plane goes into the methane cloud, since methane is lighter than air, the plane might start falling. The plane altimeter will go way up high since it is based on air pressure and the pilot may think he is going up and tilt the nose of the plane down, when he is already going down, and then the plane will crash into the sea and sink. Also the Avenger planes, the type of plane the planes in Flight 19 were, when a little over 1% methane got into the engine, the plane will simply stop. I did not see the end so I don't know anything more. Wahh Anyway, that might answer how they dissapeared.

[Jaime C.]

Also the wreckage off the coast Amityville Rock was talking about proved to be a rare occurence that % different ships ended up in the same spots, although launched at different dates. I love the Discovery Channel. In fact for me, it is on right now although I got a sneak preview at 6:00 because I have sattelite.

[jpol66]

Discovery Channel on TV, USA, had a special yesterday night - they searched for the planes and found 5 others instead.
The theory is that methane gas might have been released from the ocean; this would have made the engines stall; they would have to ditch in the ocean.
Also, they were probably off course - thought they were by the Florida keys and Gulf of Mexico, but were actually by islands in the Atlantic Ocean. So, when they turned toward where they thought Florida would be, they were actually going out over the ocean. Could have run out of fuel.
One of the men searching for the planes, on the Discovery Channel, lost a brother-in-law in one of the planes. So, he has a special interest in this.
Maybe there will be another search in the future.

[Amityville Rock]

Actually the methane gas theory is nothing new. I've heard mention made of it for several years now. Gian does a wonderful job of discrediting this theory in his new book Into the Bermuda Triangle: Exploring the truth behind the World's Greatest Mystery. Also this theory does not explain many of the more bizzare incidents that have occured in the Bermuda Triangle over the course of this last century, and it doesn't explain either the total lack of wreckage of any kind in the vast majority of plane cases were said theory claims they would have exploded and thus left some type of floatsam behind.


Amityville Rock

------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Giant Bubbles' caused disasters
The Adelaide Advertiser (09-Sep-98)

A British scientist claims to have solved the mystery of the Bermuda Triangle - and says the explanation could fix the world's energy problems.
Geologist Dr Ben Clennell told a conference that the phenomenon where planes, ships and people have vanished was caused by giant gas bubbles.

The gas bubbles resulted from underwater landslides releasing frozen methane gas which had built up over millennia. The methane ice "gas hydrate" was produced by deep-sea bacteria feeding beneath the ocean bed.

The effect of these apple-sized bubbles rising to the surface could be disastrous because the release of a large quantity of methane would reduce the density of seawater.

"This would make any ship... sink like a stone," he told the British Association Festival of Science in Cardiff.

Dr Clennell said the gas hydrates on the surface created a one-off threat to planes flying overhead because extremely combustible gas was released into the atmosphere.

The effect of this gas release, he argued, could be fatal because the gas could catch fire when it came into contact with the heat of the plane's engines.

His theory is the latest by scientists to try to solve the riddle of the triangle which covers an area in the Atlantic Ocean bordered by Bermuda, Puerto Rico and Florida. It has claimed an estimated 1000 lives and up to 50 ships and 20 planes in the past century.

The Leeds University scientist said he had evidence that the coastline near the Bermuda Triangle contained large amounts of hydrates. The fact no wreckage had ever been found could be attributed to the depth in the area - more than 10,000m - believed the deepest part of the Atlantic Ocean.

Dr Clennell claimed the gas hydrates could become an excellent source of energy - and initial drilling tests to tap into this resource were about to start. "There is enough energy locked away in these ice-like hydrates to meet the world's fuel requirements for two centuries," he said'


For more information see:
Bob Carroll's Skeptic's Dictionary - Bermuda Triangle

[zzvampy]

Hey Rock, great board here.

Jaime C. , I had also watched Discovery's " Dive into the Bermuda Triangle" last night. I thought it held some great theories, but still did not totally satisfy my question of Flight 19's disappearance

The methane gas theory may hold true for some ships, but planes...nah. I can't buy into it.

[Amityville Rock]

Welcome to all our wonderful new members. I'm happy that of you all have found your way here, and that you enjoy our humble little forum I'm very pleased to see some debait going on, and general dissucsion about the Bermuda Triangle both pro and con between posters. All view points are welcome here.

I for one (having a background in amateur meteorology) am well aware that not all mishaps in the area are due to the sinister workings of the paranormal, but by this same token I have seen official documentation (from American and British governmental agencies for example) concerning some very strange occurrences that have happened during certain cases that are VERY hard to dismiss as simple everyday phenomena or some type of mass hysteria. Basically I'm not saying that I have all the answers, only that perhaps we can discover some of them together.


Amityville Rock

[Gian]

All right, who was this "brother-in-law"? I know most of the families and never heard of any brother-in-law being involved. TV usually get their contacts from me. From what I undcerstand this was an incredibly passé show, highlighting Graham Hawkes 13 year old discovery and the very dated methane gas theory. Methanre has caused NOTHING to vanish. Most disappearances do not occur near the methane beds.

Gian

[bbdarknyss]

Brand new to the site. I've only recently rolled back into this kind of subject matter.

I was wondering if there is a site or book around that holds the complete transcripts of the flight 19 radio messages.

Thanks

[jpol66]

Most disappearances were due to bad weather conditions that were not reported correctly.
Description of transcripts:
www.moonscope.com/Avenger.htm
Actual trans. don't seem to be available.

[zzvampy]

Wow, I'm having a hard time getting my posts to go through, getting a pop up message each time I try to reply.

"Too Many Connections

There are currently too many connections to this server. Please check back again in 30 seconds."

But anyhow, it was my understanding that there are little to no methane gas beds in the Triangle area.

Also, in response to jpol66, bad weather conditions reported incorrectly? By whom?

[Britain4000]

ok look.. methane gas? what the hell??? probably the ocean but not in the air..... if you read my board.. I KNOW WHERE FLGHT 19 WENT!!! yeh believe it or not i know where it went.. so email at [e-mail]... or read my board AND CAST YOUR VOTE ON WHERE YOU THINK IT IS!!! c ya

Britain4000